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	<title>Comments on: Medical Blog Network vs. Lynch Mob</title>
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	<link>http://www.healthcareguy.com/2006/03/14/medical-blog-network-vs-lynch-mob/</link>
	<description>Shahid&#039;s healthcare IT, EMR, EHR, PHR, medical content, and document managment advisory service. Enjoy.</description>
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		<title>By: picnframes</title>
		<link>http://www.healthcareguy.com/2006/03/14/medical-blog-network-vs-lynch-mob/comment-page-1/#comment-1196</link>
		<dc:creator>picnframes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 04:11:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.healthcareguy.com/?p=229#comment-1196</guid>
		<description>Picnframes is a Professional web design and Web Development Company in india provides you custom website development, Website optimization services, web application development, ecommerce website design and development services. Custom web application development services and professional website development at affordable rates from PICNFRAMES Technologies&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.picnframes.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.picnframes.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.edesignerz.net&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.edesignerz.net&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Picnframes is a Professional web design and Web Development Company in india provides you custom website development, Website optimization services, web application development, ecommerce website design and development services. Custom web application development services and professional website development at affordable rates from PICNFRAMES Technologies<br /><a href="http://www.picnframes.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.picnframes.com</a><br /><a href="http://www.edesignerz.net" rel="nofollow">http://www.edesignerz.net</a></p>
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		<title>By: Genetics and Health &#187; Ways to Read Genetics and Health</title>
		<link>http://www.healthcareguy.com/2006/03/14/medical-blog-network-vs-lynch-mob/comment-page-1/#comment-230</link>
		<dc:creator>Genetics and Health &#187; Ways to Read Genetics and Health</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jun 2006 22:31:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.healthcareguy.com/?p=229#comment-230</guid>
		<description>[...] I am asking you again, Dmitriy, to remove my feeds and user account from TMBN. I have tried to do as Shahid suggested but to no avail. Maybe this will get your attention. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I am asking you again, Dmitriy, to remove my feeds and user account from TMBN. I have tried to do as Shahid suggested but to no avail. Maybe this will get your attention. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Barbados Butterfly</title>
		<link>http://www.healthcareguy.com/2006/03/14/medical-blog-network-vs-lynch-mob/comment-page-1/#comment-229</link>
		<dc:creator>Barbados Butterfly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:22:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.healthcareguy.com/?p=229#comment-229</guid>
		<description>As a practising clinician I prefer ethical arguments to legal arguments. The ethics of the situation are much clearer than the legal position. Thankfully the situation has been remedied but I disagree with the statement that the original position of TMBN was &quot;vindicated&quot; by the Google case.

The original position was wrong. That&#039;s the reason behind the policy change and for the hooplah resulting from my post.

Shahid, no need to apologise for assuming that I&#039;m male. It&#039;s not an uncommon misconception - even the British Medical Association News thinks I&#039;m male! I guess female surgical registrars are still a rarity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a practising clinician I prefer ethical arguments to legal arguments. The ethics of the situation are much clearer than the legal position. Thankfully the situation has been remedied but I disagree with the statement that the original position of TMBN was &#8220;vindicated&#8221; by the Google case.</p>
<p>The original position was wrong. That&#8217;s the reason behind the policy change and for the hooplah resulting from my post.</p>
<p>Shahid, no need to apologise for assuming that I&#8217;m male. It&#8217;s not an uncommon misconception &#8211; even the British Medical Association News thinks I&#8217;m male! I guess female surgical registrars are still a rarity.</p>
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		<title>By: dkruglyak</title>
		<link>http://www.healthcareguy.com/2006/03/14/medical-blog-network-vs-lynch-mob/comment-page-1/#comment-228</link>
		<dc:creator>dkruglyak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Mar 2006 22:21:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.healthcareguy.com/?p=229#comment-228</guid>
		<description>Sure, this is not the last case and there is always argument about applicability of any precedent.

Words like &quot;temporary&quot; and &quot;excerpts&quot; mean nothing. We all know that Google caches everything in full forever, but looks like they successfully argued that dropping a few little pieces of a page creates &quot;excerpts&quot;. I can as well say that even the &quot;full&quot; posts are excerpts too, since they do not include the entire blog site scaffolding.

USENET postings and RSS feeds have more in common than you think. Both are published by the author with explicit intent for distribution.

But this is the matter from purely legalistic perspective. I do not find it worth a fight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure, this is not the last case and there is always argument about applicability of any precedent.</p>
<p>Words like &#8220;temporary&#8221; and &#8220;excerpts&#8221; mean nothing. We all know that Google caches everything in full forever, but looks like they successfully argued that dropping a few little pieces of a page creates &#8220;excerpts&#8221;. I can as well say that even the &#8220;full&#8221; posts are excerpts too, since they do not include the entire blog site scaffolding.</p>
<p>USENET postings and RSS feeds have more in common than you think. Both are published by the author with explicit intent for distribution.</p>
<p>But this is the matter from purely legalistic perspective. I do not find it worth a fight.</p>
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		<title>By: Carsten</title>
		<link>http://www.healthcareguy.com/2006/03/14/medical-blog-network-vs-lynch-mob/comment-page-1/#comment-227</link>
		<dc:creator>Carsten</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:14:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.healthcareguy.com/?p=229#comment-227</guid>
		<description>I wouldn&#039;t go claiming vindication just yet, as that Google case seems to be significantly different.  A couple of words pop up: temporary and excerpts.  Your site was copying content permanently and full posts rather than excerpts.  Also, the parts of the case were thrown out because a third-party actually was the one to copy the content off of USENET, without the knowledge of Google.  The opinion also says USENET postings are not copyright protected, it does not say RSS feeds are not copyright protected.  The article references another case where caching thumnails of images (i.e. more full-content than an excerpt) is a violation of copyright law.

I agree with you on one thing though - there is not enough specificity under current legislation or case law (though I can&#039;t claim to have read all of it).  All this is just academic until there is a legal challenge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wouldn&#8217;t go claiming vindication just yet, as that Google case seems to be significantly different.  A couple of words pop up: temporary and excerpts.  Your site was copying content permanently and full posts rather than excerpts.  Also, the parts of the case were thrown out because a third-party actually was the one to copy the content off of USENET, without the knowledge of Google.  The opinion also says USENET postings are not copyright protected, it does not say RSS feeds are not copyright protected.  The article references another case where caching thumnails of images (i.e. more full-content than an excerpt) is a violation of copyright law.</p>
<p>I agree with you on one thing though &#8211; there is not enough specificity under current legislation or case law (though I can&#8217;t claim to have read all of it).  All this is just academic until there is a legal challenge.</p>
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		<title>By: dkruglyak</title>
		<link>http://www.healthcareguy.com/2006/03/14/medical-blog-network-vs-lynch-mob/comment-page-1/#comment-226</link>
		<dc:creator>dkruglyak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Mar 2006 01:48:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.healthcareguy.com/?p=229#comment-226</guid>
		<description>Carsten,

You can argue legal points all you want. The problem is there is not enough specificity under the current law, so it is pretty much useless.

What everybody needs is a fresh look at the whole policy landscape for &quot;mashosphere&quot;, as described in the WebMoney article I referenced above.

TMBN has always been explicit that our goal is not only to be a traffic hub for members&#039; sites but build community at (www.healthvoices.com).

So yes, we are more than a &quot;dumb&quot; aggregator. We are building a feature-rich intelligent community site.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carsten,</p>
<p>You can argue legal points all you want. The problem is there is not enough specificity under the current law, so it is pretty much useless.</p>
<p>What everybody needs is a fresh look at the whole policy landscape for &#8220;mashosphere&#8221;, as described in the WebMoney article I referenced above.</p>
<p>TMBN has always been explicit that our goal is not only to be a traffic hub for members&#8217; sites but build community at (www.healthvoices.com).</p>
<p>So yes, we are more than a &#8220;dumb&#8221; aggregator. We are building a feature-rich intelligent community site.</p>
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		<title>By: dkruglyak</title>
		<link>http://www.healthcareguy.com/2006/03/14/medical-blog-network-vs-lynch-mob/comment-page-1/#comment-225</link>
		<dc:creator>dkruglyak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Mar 2006 01:39:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.healthcareguy.com/?p=229#comment-225</guid>
		<description>I find it ironic that the legal precedent to vindicate my original position arrives just in time:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://news.com.com/Google+wins+a+court+battle/2100-1030_3-6050667.html?tag=nefd.top&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Google wins a court battle&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it ironic that the legal precedent to vindicate my original position arrives just in time:</p>
<p><a href="http://news.com.com/Google+wins+a+court+battle/2100-1030_3-6050667.html?tag=nefd.top" rel="nofollow">Google wins a court battle</a></p>
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		<title>By: Shahid N. Shah</title>
		<link>http://www.healthcareguy.com/2006/03/14/medical-blog-network-vs-lynch-mob/comment-page-1/#comment-224</link>
		<dc:creator>Shahid N. Shah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Mar 2006 00:52:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.healthcareguy.com/?p=229#comment-224</guid>
		<description>Carsten, good points. Now I can stop scratching my head about whether I&#039;ve given explicit authorization to my posts just because I include my entire posting. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carsten, good points. Now I can stop scratching my head about whether I&#8217;ve given explicit authorization to my posts just because I include my entire posting. <img src='http://www.healthcareguy.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Carsten</title>
		<link>http://www.healthcareguy.com/2006/03/14/medical-blog-network-vs-lynch-mob/comment-page-1/#comment-223</link>
		<dc:creator>Carsten</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:57:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.healthcareguy.com/?p=229#comment-223</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;While I certainly don’t like aggregators putting up my entire posts I guess I can’t really complain (or mind) since I am “authorizing” it by including my entire post in a feed.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I don&#039;t believe that I am giving a condition-free license to use my content however anyone sees fit simply by publishing a feed.  All of my content, including the full-post feed are released under specific conditions detailed in &lt;a href=&quot;http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.5/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the license&lt;/a&gt;.

&lt;blockquote&gt;At first I thought that if we weren’t explicitly allowing it (via a license statement or something), aggregators should assume that we’re not authorizing it. But then, if we give our postings in a feed we’re explicitly saying it’s ok.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Actually copyright is automatically reserved once a work is created, and no notice is required in order to exercise the rights of authors protected by copyright.  (See the comments &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.healthvoices.com/blog/hippocrates/2006/03/13/online_content_aggregators_the_past_the_present_the_future#comment-172&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; for further.)  In my interpretation, anyone wishing to use the feed in excess of &quot;fair use&quot; (i.e. for commercial purposes) would have to obtain the permission of the blog author before redistributing content.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>While I certainly don’t like aggregators putting up my entire posts I guess I can’t really complain (or mind) since I am “authorizing” it by including my entire post in a feed.</p></blockquote>
<p>I don&#8217;t believe that I am giving a condition-free license to use my content however anyone sees fit simply by publishing a feed.  All of my content, including the full-post feed are released under specific conditions detailed in <a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.5/" rel="nofollow">the license</a>.</p>
<blockquote><p>At first I thought that if we weren’t explicitly allowing it (via a license statement or something), aggregators should assume that we’re not authorizing it. But then, if we give our postings in a feed we’re explicitly saying it’s ok.</p></blockquote>
<p>Actually copyright is automatically reserved once a work is created, and no notice is required in order to exercise the rights of authors protected by copyright.  (See the comments <a href="http://www.healthvoices.com/blog/hippocrates/2006/03/13/online_content_aggregators_the_past_the_present_the_future#comment-172" rel="nofollow">here</a> for further.)  In my interpretation, anyone wishing to use the feed in excess of &#8220;fair use&#8221; (i.e. for commercial purposes) would have to obtain the permission of the blog author before redistributing content.</p>
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		<title>By: Carsten</title>
		<link>http://www.healthcareguy.com/2006/03/14/medical-blog-network-vs-lynch-mob/comment-page-1/#comment-222</link>
		<dc:creator>Carsten</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:45:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.healthcareguy.com/?p=229#comment-222</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;1) Quoting for the purpose of commenting is a well-established example of fair use of copyrighted materials.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

No argument about copyright there.  However, my comment was directed more as to what is the purpose of  a separate comment section on an aggregator?  It doesn&#039;t drive traffic to member websites (which is one of your stated goals), and it doesn&#039;t promote a unified discussion - there will be some comments on the original blog, and some comments on the aggregator.  I doubt that the post author would ever visit the aggregator site to reply to comments there.  Wouldn&#039;t it be better to link to the comment section on the original poster&#039;s blog?

&lt;blockquote&gt;2) We include both links to every item on our site (Permalinks) and the links back to original post (Sourcelinks). Both are listed clearly.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yup, I see them both now.  When I last looked, the sourcelink was not so obvious (you had to click the aggregators permalink or something, I don&#039;t remember.)  However, again, what is the purpose of a permalink pointing to a re-posted post? A permalink is to be a permanent and singular source of the content.  If the point of TMBN is really to generate traffic for member sites, would it not be better to simply have a sourcelink back to the original post, rather than a permalink that attempts to falsely elevate TMBN&#039;s PageRank?  Other medical aggregators (i.e. Medlogs) d this (granted, they have an outgoing click counting mechanism, but they do not create seperate permalinks for every post.)

&lt;blockquote&gt;These points become moot for bloggers who publish only teasers in RSS feeds - which generate traffic to their sites. You have full control over your feeds.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

But what if I want to provide full post feeds for reader&#039;s personal use in desktop and web-based opt-in aggregators where the user actually has to subscribe to the feed (i.e. Bloglines), but I don&#039;t want my content re-posted on a for-profit commercial aggregator without explicit permission?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>1) Quoting for the purpose of commenting is a well-established example of fair use of copyrighted materials.</p></blockquote>
<p>No argument about copyright there.  However, my comment was directed more as to what is the purpose of  a separate comment section on an aggregator?  It doesn&#8217;t drive traffic to member websites (which is one of your stated goals), and it doesn&#8217;t promote a unified discussion &#8211; there will be some comments on the original blog, and some comments on the aggregator.  I doubt that the post author would ever visit the aggregator site to reply to comments there.  Wouldn&#8217;t it be better to link to the comment section on the original poster&#8217;s blog?</p>
<blockquote><p>2) We include both links to every item on our site (Permalinks) and the links back to original post (Sourcelinks). Both are listed clearly.</p></blockquote>
<p>Yup, I see them both now.  When I last looked, the sourcelink was not so obvious (you had to click the aggregators permalink or something, I don&#8217;t remember.)  However, again, what is the purpose of a permalink pointing to a re-posted post? A permalink is to be a permanent and singular source of the content.  If the point of TMBN is really to generate traffic for member sites, would it not be better to simply have a sourcelink back to the original post, rather than a permalink that attempts to falsely elevate TMBN&#8217;s PageRank?  Other medical aggregators (i.e. Medlogs) d this (granted, they have an outgoing click counting mechanism, but they do not create seperate permalinks for every post.)</p>
<blockquote><p>These points become moot for bloggers who publish only teasers in RSS feeds &#8211; which generate traffic to their sites. You have full control over your feeds.</p></blockquote>
<p>But what if I want to provide full post feeds for reader&#8217;s personal use in desktop and web-based opt-in aggregators where the user actually has to subscribe to the feed (i.e. Bloglines), but I don&#8217;t want my content re-posted on a for-profit commercial aggregator without explicit permission?</p>
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